Novak Goat 3S Crawler Brushless System

[IceChilly]

I have been browsing different brushless systems for my CR-01 (Not ready to buy just yet but figuring out what I which one I want to be prepared for when I do)

The Novak Goat 3S Crawler Brushless System has caught my eye.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYNK3&P=7
and
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYNK2&P=7

One is 18.5T and the other is 21.5T. My question is do the brushless motors follow the same rules as regular electric motors meaning the 21.5T will have more torque and less speed than the 18.5T?

I also see these can be powered by NiMH batteries which is all I currently own. Will they still perform ok? Im not sure I want to spend more cash on a new charger and battery that will cost as much as the brushless system lol.

Thanks in advance :)

[IceChilly]

Associated LRP has a setup also
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXJT6&P=7

[Arcocustom]

Tamiya makes a brushless crawler system called the Volac also, but it was never imported to the US. :( The Novak stuff works well. I'm trying to find the specs on the different motors. Here is some info I have found.

http://www.teamnovak.com/products/brushless/goat3s_ballistic/index.html

Basically, it states that you can change the stator between 21.5, 18.5, and 13.5, but the 13.5 can only be run on 6 cells or 2S Lipo. New stators are about 33 bucks. The lower the # the more RPM per volt it will have for sure. The higher # motors are not as power hungry, so you will get slightly better run-time. The crawler motors have 14mm diameter rotors and this generates more torque but limits the crawler motors to under 50,000 RPM. Standard rotors are around 12mm.

18.5 Novak Brushless Crawler Motor
SPECS: Watts: 119
Maximum RPM: 50,000
kV: 1650 RPM/volt (unloaded)
Sensor Harness Length: 9" (230mm)
Motor Size: 2.07 x 1.41" (52.6 x 35.8mm)
Shaft Diameter: 0.125" (3.2mm)
Motor Weight: 6.6.1oz (187g)
Magnetic Material Operating Temp:* 392°F (200°C)
* Motor is not capable of operating at 392°F (200°C). The recommended
operating temperature is 160°F (70°C)

21.5 Novak Brushless Crawler Motor
SPECS: Watts: 85
kV: 1350 RPM/volt (unloaded)
Sensor Harness Length: 9" (230mm)
Motor Size: 2.07 x 1.41" (52.6 x 35.8mm)
Shaft Diameter: 0.125" (3.2mm)
Motor Weight: 6.6.1oz (187g)
Magnetic Material Operating Temp:* 392°F (200°C)
* Motor is not capable of operating at 392°F (200°C). The recommended
operating temperature is 160°F (70°C)

[IceChilly]

After reading that article it makes me want one more lol. Thanks Jay.

[OldSchoolRC]

One is 18.5T and the other is 21.5T. My question is do the brushless motors follow the same rules as regular electric motors meaning the 21.5T will have more torque and less speed than the 18.5T?

To answer that question, yes. Brushless turns are not the same as brushed turns though, a 17t brushed motor is something like a 21t brushless.

What i find interesting is that the rotor size makes a ton of difference. The VXL motor for example has a larger diameter rotor than say a castle CM36 motor, and makes gobs more torque. Larger rotor=more torque. Putting a pair of VXL motors in my clod...should be fun!

[IceChilly]

Another thing is would I need to upgrade moving parts due to all the extra torque Im sure this will make?

[Arcocustom]

I like the fact the Novak has user replaceable stators and they are relatively cheap compared to an entirely new motor.

13.5 Stator
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYNL4&P=7

17.5 Stator
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYNL5&P=7

21.5 Stator
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYNL6&P=7

[IceChilly]

To answer that question, yes. Brushless turns are not the same as brushed turns though, a 17t brushed motor is something like a 21t brushless.

What i find interesting is that the rotor size makes a ton of difference. The VXL motor for example has a larger diameter rotor than say a castle CM36 motor, and makes gobs more torque. Larger rotor=more torque. Putting a pair of VXL motors in my clod...should be fun!

Thanks Damon...That sounds like a load of fun and craziness! Im thinking you will need a durable bumper though ;)

[IceChilly]

This hobby took a whole new level in technology lol. Stators hmmm. Im guessing these stators would last longer than a regular brushed motor too.

[Arcocustom]

This hobby took a whole new level in technology lol. Stators hmmm. Im guessing these stators would last longer than a regular brushed motor too.

Provided you do not over heat the motor the stator should last forever. The rotors should last too, provided you do overheat the motor, and you do not freewheel the motor wide open which could cause the rotor to explode. :eek: The 14mm rotors on the crawler motors are only rated up to 50,000 RPM. Normal 12mm rotors are rated up to around 100,000 RPM I do believe.

[Arcocustom]

I also see these can be powered by NiMH batteries which is all I currently own. Will they still perform ok?

Batteries that are rated at 25C or lower, generally, cannot sustain their voltage under load, causing a vehicle’s electronics, such as the ESC and receiver, to drop out intermittently.

Your NiMH's are rated at around 15C. Novak sells a Glitch Buster Capacitor (Novak #5626) that cures the intermittent radio glitching from low C-rated batteries.


Another thing is would I need to upgrade moving parts due to all the extra torque Im sure this will make?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e126/CoolJetta3/CR-01%20Landcruiser/DSC_5069.jpg

Probably will want to invest in some stronger driveshafts. Also, make sure that the rear pinion angle does not become out of phase or it will bind and break no matter what it is made of.

The angle of both U-Joints must be equal. This is generally achieved by making the TRANSMISSION OUTPUT SHAFT and PINION parallel. For example the gearbox and pinion may both be horizontal but at differerent heights.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/3721100367_a3b2d237da_o_d.png

[IceChilly]

Great info as usual Jay. I think I will enjoy the truck with my Tekin fxr and 45t motor for now and then approach the whole brushless/lipo thing in time.

Thanks again :thumb:

[Arcocustom]

@ Jamie

No problemo my friend. :) I have a couple of Novak brushless set-ups I am running. My CR-01 Wrangler has a
Novak Havoc 8.5 brushless system in it and it has a great linear throttle curve and plenty of power... maybe too much in fact. :eek:
I posted a couple of videos a while back that demonstrate what I'm sayin. ;)

http://www.tamiyacrawlers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1340

The Tekin FXR's are great speedo's too, once you bypass the wimpy BEC, they don't skip a beat.
In comparison, the Novak Goat has the most powerful BEC around, yet another one of it's strong points. :thumb:

[IceChilly]

I saw your Wrangler video Jay. I was like wow! That thing is insane for a CR-01. Looks like a blip of the throttle and the Jeep wants to leave the ground!

[Arcocustom]

@ IceChilly

Yeah, it is a beast. I was trying to pop as many wheelies as I could and show off for the camera. :p
It does have pretty good low speed drivability, but I was pinning the throttle wide open most of the time. :D

[IceChilly]

I dont blame you, it has to be hard to hold back all that power lol

[IceChilly]

Looking further at description it states it has a Water resistant case with gasket seal. Does this make it waterproof and can brushless motors go in water? Sorry for all these questions but I want to make the right decision for me ;)

[Arcocustom]

No, water resistant is not waterproof. Novak speedo's used to be very moisture sensitive. The newer case design makes them slightly less sensitive to moisture. I have blown up the older EVX's running in early morning dew. :eek: I have run the newer Havok system in the snow, but the cold causes condensation, and that caused the speedo to glitch some. Afterwards I read that brushless systems do not like to operate in the cold. Traxxas claims their "NEWER" blue case brushless systems are water proof, but I have never tried them. LRP makes the only speedo's that I know of that are 100% waterproof. The AI series speed controls, coupled to a bushed, brushed motor, will operate submerged underwater... Your battery, servo, and receiver will not without some serious waterproofing of your own. **NOTE** lithium will ignite and burst into flames when it comes in contact with water. Li+H2O= a chemical fire that is not easily extinguished.

[IceChilly]

You guys must think I like to play with fire hahaha. I dont need to submerge it but I would want to be confident in running in terrain like snow. It seems either way it will be best to save my money and use the technology I am familiar with.

I thought maybe the velineon system but I dont see anyone running them in a scale crawler build so I assume the braking isnt any good.

I have an AI runner and a traxxas waterproof servo I can swap in for the winter months if I choose to.

Thanks for the info. I feel like Im new to the hobby again because I keep having more and more questions lol

But you guys are the best :thumb: